ワンピース強さ議論と雑談スレ Part68

ワンピース強さ議論と ..

321:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 02:28:31 e3Q9W3QS0
海楼石が能力者を完全に無効にしつつ動く力すら奪うほどの強力なアイテムってのも話的にうまく使いづらいよな。
単に海楼石があたってると能力が発動できないってだけで力が抜ける設定ないほうがよかった。それなら自然系の中でも体術にも優れている方が強者だったりするだろうし。

322:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 02:34:10 1aG6hgGu0
ウソップに海楼石のつぶてを何個か持たせたコンビならロギア余裕だな

323:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 03:37:47 htMRtg8C0
ペローナの能力が海桜石よりも強力
ゴーストの効果が何分か続くのは海桜石よりもかなり強力

ロビン以上のスピードがないと避けるのは無理

ゾロサンジフランキー程度では避けられない

324:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 05:23:55 9hSKRTvIO
ダイアルを持っているそげになんぴとたりともダメージを与えることは出来ない

325:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 05:30:59 iQt3q/db0
>>320
確かに読んだ感想としては誰でもれに近い感想を持つかもしれないけど、
強さ議論で「～と見ていいだろう」ってのは主観でしかないから公平性を欠くんだよな。
実際、黒髭の強さに関しても「既に四皇と同レベルだと思う」「まだそのレベルまでは達してないと思う」「黒髭の思い上がりでまだまだだと思う」
微妙な違いだけど様々だしな。やっぱ客観的描写と比べると根拠として信頼性が弱いのは明らか。
とりあえず描写された強さまでを考察して止めておくのが一番確実で荒れることが少ない。
強さ議論では結構多いんだけどね、こういう考察方法。

326:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 05:32:02 dlrLPUhM0
火、氷、砂、煙、雷、闇
あとあるとしたら光とか風とかぐらいしかないよな
早くロギア攻略法を明かしてほしい

327:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 06:27:23 wVJOvVw3O
黒ひげはシャンクスより上のランクでもおかしくないのにねぇ

328:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 06:49:04 iQt3q/db0
>>326
敵にロギアが出てこないと難しいよな～。
大地形のロギアとか出てきそうじゃない？岩とか森とか。

>>327
うん、おかしくないな。そう思ってる読者も少なくないと思う。
ただおかしくないんだけど、現状だとシャンクスあるいは白髭より上でも下でも同じでもおかしくない。
受け取り方が様々でどれも考えられるから、シャンクスのセリフからはこれ以上は議論が進まないよね。
だからキャラのセリフより客観的な描写が考察の材料として優先されちゃうんだ。
主観であーだこーだ言い合うより、描写を待ってその都度に考察するのがいちばん確実だからな。

329:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 07:09:04 e3Q9W3QS0
むしろ味方になりそうなロギアが出てきたときとかロギアの意外な弱点が明かされそうな気がする。
一人ぐらい自然系能力者が入ってもおかしくないんだよな。なんせ海賊王になる男だから。

330:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 07:24:11 Mybt4EJD0
>>320
よく読まなくても、ロギア食った奴なら「相当強い」って事くらい誰でも解ると思うがね

331:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 08:28:35 xODywBuc0
俺の勝手予想
そのうち新キャラでミズミズの実って悪魔の実を食べたやつが出る
人体の成分の大部分は水でそれを振動させればとか
水蒸気で煙幕みたいな戦闘漫画で在り来たりな技を使う

332:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 10:11:16 WTOFUH4AO
>>330
そんな話をしてるわけじゃない

333:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 12:15:02 Zhy/75Vd0
>>320
まったく同感
悪魔の実食べてない時点でシャンクスと互角の勝負？又はいい勝負したみたいだし
エース戦も黒渦で掴まれてからは互いに実の能力関係ないでしょ
実の能力無しの戦いで黒髭にボコられてたし。

基礎戦闘力だけでも七部会クラスだけど頭１つ抜けないと海賊王になれないのを
黒髭は知っててヤミヤミの実食って最強になれたと言ってるのでは

334:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 12:26:41 YWQLL/nj0
自演　乙w

335:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 12:28:35 PwsaOcsD0
あれっ？
黒渦で掴まれるとヤミの引力って消えるっけ？
エースは引っ張られ続ける（姿勢維持が困難）のでは？

336:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 12:35:14 RNU0VfAg0
四皇レベルと言っても、四皇がどれほど強いのか分かってない。
白髭は世界最強と考えてもいいかもしれんが、片腕のシャンクスが
名を連ねている以上単純に戦闘力が高いってだけでなれるもんじゃ
ない可能性も大いに有るだろう。

強力な部下を従え何千人といる部下達をまとめ上げるカリスマ性、
海賊団そのものの強大さ全部ひっくるめての「四皇」という称号で
あるかもしれないし。

黒髭は強さ的には四皇クラスであるかもしれんが、四皇じゃない。
四皇の白髭、シャンクス（と七武海のミホーク）はその肩書き含めての
「格」でＳのランクにいるわけで、一応まだ無名である黒髭は
高くてもＡランクの左端くらいが妥当なんじゃないかな。

337:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 13:04:06 vyQqtKjY0
ゴーストにあたると心が折られることを指摘したのはロビン
つまり戦闘中に相手の能力を分析
しかもこの時点でペローナの本体は本編に登場さえしてない

その後何度もゴーストが現れたがたった1度もゴーストにあたらないロビン
他のやつらと違ってゴースト対策もスピードも完璧なロビン

・互いの能力、武器、弱点、戦い方等は一切知らない状態とする。

338:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 13:23:54 Y3kH6+KI0
ふーん

339:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 13:56:59 eM6E5OcP0
俺ダークライ１００レベもてる死ねばか

340:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:06:33 RdQaQ5/QO
>>337
単に、作者的都合だろ。
orzが似合わない無機質キャラだし。
ロビン如きがスピードでルフィや剃並のサンジより速いわけが無い。
ゴーストから逃げる描写でもフランキーとスピード変わらんし。

341:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:12:39 Skz7aH9sO

S+:白髭
S-:シャンクス、ミホーク、ティーチ、エネル、青キジ
A+:スモーカー、クロコ、エース、オーズ
A-:ルフィ、ルッチ、モリア
B+:ゾロ、サンジ、ドリブロ、ワイパー、カク、ジャブラ、リューマ
B-:ロビン、フランキー、ブルック、ダズ、オーム、シュラ、ブルーノ、クマドリ、フクロウ
C+:チョパ、サトリ、ゲダツ、オヤビン、カリファ、Ｔボーン、ワンゼ、ネロ
C-:ナミ、クリーク、アーロン、盆ちゃん、ペル、チャカ、ヒナ、ベラミー、ガン・フォール、ブラハム、カマキリ
D+:ウソップ、バギー、クロ、Mr3、ドルトン、ワポル、チェスマリモ、Mr4、WF、クリケット、ヤマ
D+:コビー、ギン、はっちゃん、クロオビ、チュウ、たしぎ、Mr5、モグラ婆、マシラ、ショウジョウ、ゲンボウ、象剣付きスパンダ
E+:アルビダ(デブ)、モーガン、ヘルメッポ、モージ、カバジ、ジャンゴ、シャム、ブチ、フルボディ、Mr9、マンデー、イガラム、バレンタイン、ラキ
E-:ビビ、海兵、スパンダム

一応SからEまで。アルビダ(美人)、ペローナ、アブサロム、シンドリーは任せます

342:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:14:56 2AiBahVd0
>>333
結局「～では」止まりの読書感想文。

これまでの考察方法を無視して主観ばかり垂れ流す。どの強さ議論スレにも必ずいるよな、こういうの。
過去ログ読んでないんだろか？せめて１つ前のスレくらい読んでから意見してくれよ。
議論が噛み合ってないんじゃなくて、スレの土俵で議論しようとしない。
違う考察方法で議論したいのなら、まずルールを変えることを提案するのが筋だろうに。
そんな無作法な連中相手に、ID:6KEbGZlU0はよく愛想尽かさず話が出来たな。ビックリするわ。

343:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:16:32 HLlioJuKO
お答えします
シャンクスの傷は
ロジャーの船に乗っていた頃(青年期)につけられたモノでトラウマから黒髭を脅威に感じ少し過大評価をしてしまっている。
ジンベイとアーロン
[肩を並べる]この説については[肩を並べる]本来の意味よりも、この漫画での力関係で説明すると
シャンクスとバギー

344:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:23:10 2AiBahVd0
>>341
勝手にいろいろ変わりすぎ。
格だけで判断されてるキャラと戦闘描写のあったキャラを同格に並べるな。
ティーチ・エネル・青雉は1個下げないと。

345:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:23:21 4OBKhVkD0
少なくとも黒ヒゲ自身は自分が最強と思ってるよな
白ヒゲの船にいたのにそう思えるってのは相当だと思う
まぁ、黒ヒゲが最強でラスボスの確率が最も高いキャラだとは思うけどね

346:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:25:00 Skz7aH9sO
>>343
参考程度にしかならんが、redとblueにはジンベエとアーロンは互角の強さとある
ジンベエとアーロンについては多分麦わら海賊団で言うルフィとナミみたいな関係じゃないか？

347:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:27:07 WTOFUH4AO
>>342
寒すぎるぐらいの自演乙

348:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:29:01 Skz7aH9sO
>>344
すまん、青キジ達は１つ下でいいな

349:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:38:47 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

350:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:39:24 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

351:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:39:54 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

352:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:40:32 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

353:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:44:15 2AiBahVd0
>>347
痛いくらいの深読み乙

354:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 14:57:17 BZhL9+oJ0
ロビン以外のゾロルフィサンジフランキーチョッパーは
ペローナに絶対的敗北をした

この戦闘描写は極めて平等だね

同じ敵にみんな敵対して
ロビン以外はみんなやられてるんだから

355:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:40:12 068c9+lb0
166 ：名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい：2007/09/12(水) 13:22:45 ID:ONu9t9Za0
簡易バレ

オーズに見下ろされて倒れる一味のアップ
んでまた場面はルフィｖｓモリア

モリア「おまえ自身の戦闘力で一味が滅ぶ
　　　　助けにいかなくていいのか？」
ルフィ「大丈夫だ」にやりと笑う。
モリア「？」
ルフィ「ゾロがいるから！」どん！！
　　↓
なんかゾロが立ち上がって反撃開始の模様

356:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:41:37 IVbQDN0K0
で？

357:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:46:36 2AiBahVd0
本バレだとしたらゾロ＞サンの指標になるな

358:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:47:33 Butc5DSyO
>>348

エネルだけ下げればいい
青記事はそのままでいい
青記事のキャラとしての重要性はミホークに負けないぐらいあるし
現時点での戦闘描写でもミホーク以上の描写がされている
ミホークの描写なんて船切ったのと東の海時のゾロ倒しただけだし

359:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:53:33 z+hJfx9j0
ストーリーが続けば続く程、最初の設定からの辻褄合わせが大変だね
これはワンピースに限った話ではないが・・・

360:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:56:15 rm00UFjA0
>>358
だよね、ミホークがその位置にいるなら雉もそこにいていいクラス

361:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 15:57:15 IVbQDN0K0
いい加減描写厨うぜぇ

362:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:01:03 2AiBahVd0
ミホークは本来なら表に載せるのもどうかってキャラなんだ。
シャンクスの格とその関係でしか参考になるものが無い。
オレとしてはミホークは保留のランク外だと思ってんだけどな。
どっちにしろ描写があるキャラと無いキャラを同じ場所には入れたらダメだぜ。ワケわからなくなる。

>>361
ならスレに来るな

363:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:16:26 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

364:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:16:57 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

365:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:17:31 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

366:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:18:52 Zhy/75Vd0
>>335
描画だと掴んだら引っ張られてないように俺にはみえた
引っ張られつづけてるならそのままブラックホールに入れちゃえば最強だな

367:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:27:39 IVbQDN0K0
>>362
もういいけど、自分が糞な流れの発端を作ってるのはせめて自覚しろ。
お前のように描写での結果のみで語るのに、議論や考察は全く必要ないんだ。
予想があっての議論であり考察なわけで、描写があったらそこで直せばいい。
かなりの確率であり得る話も描写が無いで否定。しまいにゃ自分に都合のいいテンプレだけ持ち出して
予想なんか無駄だと・・・341の様にこれでどうだ？的なレスに対して、描写がない描写がないで全否定
繁栄したはずの議論も雑談も全部その一言で流れぶった斬って楽しいのか？

368:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:29:15 2AiBahVd0
最初に建物をたくさん吸い込んでｸﾞﾁｬｸﾞﾁｬﾍﾟｯってやってたよな。
なんでエースにアレやらなかったんだろ。
やってれば確実にエースより上に位置づけされるのに。

369:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:29:28 UpcnSKUV0
武器無し能力者では無いという点で個人的に、サンジ

370:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:33:22 2AiBahVd0
>>367
公平な意見が出せずに反論できないヤツの常套台詞だな。
論破されれば喚くだけ。よくいるよ、お前みたいなヤツ。
自分に都合のいいテンプレ？繁栄したはずの議論の流れを斬る？
ちょっとでもマトモな反論出来てから言えよ。

371:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:34:35 l7qBBQG7O
>>368
生物は吸い込めないという縛りでもあるのか、
海軍に引き渡すつもりだったからあえて吸い込まなかったか。

まぁどちらにせよ「描写がない」んだから、論じても意味ないだろ？

372:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:36:38 2AiBahVd0
>>371
途中までは同じように吸えるのに飲み込めないってのは非常に不可解だが、残念ながらそうなるな。
描写待ちだ。

373:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:37:10 e3Q9W3QS0
ところでロビンってベローナの能力効くのかな。
ロビンってウソップ並みにネガティブだと思うんだが。

ゴーストに1度でいいからロビンを通り抜けて欲しかった。
どうみても前向きな連中はともかくウソップ以外で1番ネガティブなロビン
を通り抜けないのは・・・・気になるじゃないか。

374:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:38:00 UpcnSKUV0
>>368
性格からして余裕のハッタリみたいなモノとか

375:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:41:36 2AiBahVd0
ウソップのゴースト耐性は
・主人公補正(vsクロコダイルのルフィ等)は考慮しない。
コレに引っかかるかもな。コレは自分ひとりでは決められないから要議論。

376:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:44:26 dpgeqdad0
>0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49
>50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99
>100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137,138,139,140,141,142,143,144,145,146,147,148,149
>150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159,160,161,162,163,164,165,166,167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,190,191,192,193,194,195,196,197,198,199
>200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216,217,218,219,220,221,222,223,224,225,226,227,228,229,230,231,232,233,234,235,236,237,238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249
>250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273,274,275,276,277,278,279,280,281,282,283,284,285,286,287,288,289,290,291,292,293,294,295,296,297,298,299
>300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,315,316,317,318,319,320,321,322,323,324,325,326,327,328,329,330,331,332,333,334,335,336,337,338,339,340,341,342,343,344,345,346,347,348,349
>350,351,352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361,362,363,364,365,366,367,368,369,370,371,372,373,374,375,376,377,378,379,380,381,382,383,384,385,386,387,388,389,390,391,392,393,394,395,396,397,398,399
>400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,415,416,417,418,419,420,421,422,423,424,425,426,427,428,429,430,431,432,433,434,435,436,437,438,439,440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449
>450,451,452,453,454,455,456,457,458,459,460,461,462,463,464,465,466,467,468,469,470,471,472,473,474,475,476,477,478,479480,481,482,483,484,485,486,487,488,489,490,491,492,493,494,495,496,497,498,499
>500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,515,516,517,518,519,520,521,522,523,524,525,526,527,528,529,530,531,532,533,534,535,536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547,548,549
>550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559,560,561,562,563,564,565,566,567,568,569,570,571,572,573,574,575,576,577,578,579,580,581,582,583,584,585,586,587,588,589,590,591,592,593,594,595,596,597,598,599
>600,601,602,603,604,605,606,607,608,609,610,611,612,613,614,615,616,617,618,619,620,621,622,623,624,625,626,627,628,629,630,631,632,633,634,635,636,637,638,639,640,641,642,643,644,645,646,647,648,649
>650,651,652,653,654,655,656,657,658,659,660,661,662,663,664,665,666,667,668,669,670,671,672,673,674,675,676,677,678,679,680,681,682,683,684,685,686,687,688,689,690,691,692,693,694,695,696,697,698,699
>700,701,702,703,704,705,706,707,708,709,710,711,712,713,714,715,716,717,718,719,720,721,722,723,724,725,726,727,728,729,730,731,732,733,734,735,736,737,738,739,740,741,742,743,744,745,746,747,748,749
>750,751,752,753,754,755,756,757,758,759,760,761,762,763,764,765,766,767,768,769,770,771,772,773,774,775,776,777,778,779,780,781,782,783,784,785,786,787,788,789,790,791,792,793,794,795,796,797,798,799
>800,801,802,803,804,805,806,807,808,809,810,811,812,813,814,815,816,817,818,819,820,821,822,823,824,825,826,827,828,829,830,831,832,833,834,835,836,837,838,839,840,841,842,843,844,845,846,847,848,849
>850,851,852,853,854,855,856,857,858,859,860,861,862,863,864,865,866,867,868,869,870,871,872,873,874,875,876,877,878,879,880,881,882,883,884,885,886,887,888,889,890,891,892,893,894,895,896,897,898,899
>900,901,902,903,904,905,906,907,908,909,910,911,912,913,914,915,916,917,918,919,920,921,922,923,924,925,926,927,928,929,930,931,932,933,934,935,936,937,938,939,940,941,942,943,944,945,946,947,948,949
>950,951,952,953,954,955,956,957,958,959,960,961,962,963,964,965,966,967,968,969,970,971,972,973,974,975,976,977,978,979,980,981,982,983,984,985,986,987,988,989,990,991,992,993,994,995,996,997,998,999,1000
>1-1000>>1000

377:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:52:27 2AiBahVd0
まぁアレだ。ここは他の強さ議論スレと違って雑談も出来る。
レスする奴が考えた予想とか進展を自由に言い合える。
だがランク表に反映されるのは情報としていちばん確実な公平客観的描写だ。
今まで真剣にそうやってきたんだから、いきなり違う方法でランク変えろって言われてもそりゃ無理だろ。
それがやりたいんだったら、まず考察方法の変更を提案しろってことだ。

378:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 16:53:03 dlrLPUhM0
>>375
まぁひっかかるな
ゴーストにルフィ達が触れたのも逆に主人公補正な気がする
戦闘モードだったらあんなに簡単にゴーストが触れるか疑問

379:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 17:23:25 TSFvm5330
ゴーストに触れたら全滅だ、つまり全員死亡だとわかっていても
ゾロサンジフランキーはゴーストをよけることは彼らにとって不可能だった

ロビンはゴーストにふれるとよくないのではとロビンが唯一気付いてから
それからずっとゴーストを避け続けている

ロビンにとって数多くのゴーストをよけるのは可能なことだった

一味全員死亡すると認識しててゴーストをよけられない人と
完璧にゴーストをよけるロビンの戦力差が決定的にあるよね

380:名無しさんの次レスにご期待下さい
07/09/12 17:42:47 Zhy/75Vd0
>>371 >>372 >>374
悪魔の実の能力者を確実に引きつけるのは黒渦という技のみ
その他の技では確実には引き付けられない
ロギア・・・エースだったら炎、エネルだったら雷になればいい、逃げられる
パラミシア・・・一瞬で逃げられる（剃とか）遠くに
エースも言ってた、『捕まんなきゃいいんだろ』
そこで黒渦だ！
黒髭が己の能力に過信するロギア、ゾオン、パラミシアに防御不可能の力を得た
みたいなこと言ってた。

もちろん描画なしのセリフからの予想が大半で確実ではないけどこの位はいいだろ

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